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Special
Page For CE Marcum,
Alleged US Airways Pilot
Who Would Fit Right In At NorthWorst Air
News Alert: CNN rates US Airways #1
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Date:
Thursday, January 14, 1999 8:25 PM
"NWA has issued an apology and
free flight coupons to the passengers who were so-called
"imprisoned" on their airplanes in DTW the other
day."
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 12:30 PM
"Here's another example. Not EVERYONE is a good person. Some are flat out devious and wrong. Suppose you're a bad person and you decide that you want to try to get something for nothing, so you go to some company and tell them that they ripped you off. Suppose for example (and I'm not saying you did this), that you knew that your laptop was broken before you went to the airport that day and you decided to concoct a scheme to get (your favorite) airline to buy a new one for you. With your view that the customer is ALWAYS right, even in this case when the customer is clearly wrong, you'd be buying that customer a new laptop computer if you were in charge."
"There are people out there who take advantage of their own mothers who are demanding free rides on the back of corporate America. People like that should receive absolutely nothing, but instead at your corporations, they're getting rides. Hey: I wouldn't mind having some things for free: what are your companies again?"
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 1:29 PM
>Marcum said:
">Northwest could have EASILY MORE than compensated you for your laptop, and I believe they would have even if it clearly WASN'T (and I'm not saying that it wasn't) their fault that it got broken, but due to the way it sounds like you approached the situation, they chose not to."
Riley replies:
Now here is something we agree on. NW chose to not document the incident at the time of loss. NW chose to give crummy service by having many people pass the buck. NW chose to wait on customers out of order. NW chose to get belligerent with me when I objected to that situation. NW chose to stonewall me by bouncing me between different insurance companies. Now they will pay the price for the next twenty years or so.
"> Also, from what I've read, I don't blame them and I believe that ANY airline would have handled the situation similarly if put under the same circumstances."
">I'd write it off as a lesson well learned as it sounds to me like the only person you can blame for your not being compensated in any manner for your laptop is yourself."
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 3:43 PM
"You know, some of your comments really are a bit ridiculous. That's not necessarily true either. If I tried to extort (and I'm not saying that you've done this) $4000 from your fictitious, Inventors Airline, claiming that you broke my computer, I would hardly expect to win the pissing contest. I would hope that you would remain courteous with me (even though I know by what I've read that you wouldn't be), but I by no means would expect you to allow me to continue to fly your airline."
"I don't see that they STOLE $4000 dollars from you. You really should be careful with how you're presenting your case because it really does look like it could be extortion. You don't know that they're responsible for it, yet because you BELIEVE that they are, you're presenting it as if it is fact."
"I agree with Holly and would like to add that I pity the airline that makes an honest mistake with you because if YOU don't see it that way, that airline will be sorry for twenty years. Reading your comments, I keep seeing the vision of a big kid ranting and raving about how he's been wronged. It seems to me as if either you never grew up or your money has allowed you to have your way so much that you expect it now."
"I've never cared one iota for or against Northwest Airlines, but now that I've seen how you've attacked them for years for reasons which COULD be completely wrong, I'm actually becoming sympathetic toward them. It's a shame that corporations even attempt to appease people like you because they don't know better initially. You're hell-bent on believing that the customer is always right (even though that's not true), and wrongly believing that, you'll give anybody hell who demonstrates otherwise. May the best man (Northwest) win."
-----Original
Message-----
From: C E Marcum <cmarcum@juno.com>
To: rjriley@rjriley.com <rjriley@rjriley.com>
Date: Tuesday,
March 30, 1999 12:08 AM
Subject: My Page
Mr. Marcun said:
"I was pleased to discover that I have my own page on your website, however, I suggest you contact US Airways to determine whether or not a C. E. Marcum or anyone named Marcum for that matter actually works for them. You could try contacting their headquarters in Crystal City, Virginia for verification should you wish to protect yourself from any potential legal action."
I suggest that you show the web pages to the US Airways PR people. Since you are comfortable with both what you had to say and how you said it, there should be no difficulty.
I am on safe legal ground since you acknowledged on several occasions that you do work for them. If by some chance you are using an alias I will leave it up to US Airways to identify you. You have let more than enough information out to allow them to do so. You are rather brash, which is evidence that you are fairly young, and a pilot recently promoted.
Since US Airways is a reputable company, and it is clear that your reasoning ability and general predisposition toward the customer is flawed, I have little doubt that you will mess up big time with a customer. And I am satisfied that US Airways will deal with you in an appropriate manner.
Of coarse you could give your general attitude towards customers some consideration, get religion so to speak, and avoid all those problems. But I doubt you will do so. This page demonstrates, through your comments, why we need a law spelling out a travelers bill of rights. Currently the deck is stacked in favor of the airlines. And airline customers get screwed over by airline staff with a bad attitude and then an indifferent bureaucracy.
By the way, I am not finished with your page yet. You may want to revisit it once in awhile.
Ron
=============================================
Mr Marcum, I appreciate the concern you expressed in your rather lengthy letter from which I have quoted below.
On Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:57 PM in an e-mail titled E-mail Law 101 you said: "All joking aside, it's just occured to me that my page on your site could be "damaging" to me (financially and otherwise). I must therefore regretfully inform you that I cannot allow you to use it."
This is journalism 101 and we are covering fair use. Your public comments can be quoted, as I have done on this page. Any work you produced may be used in part under the doctrine of fair use. Also, if you review the discussion, which was quite lengthy and spanned over six months, you commented on the issue of carefully considering one's public comments early on.
You said:
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 11:37 AM
"Third, I agree with your comments about us being careful of what we post here because it could be construed as representing our companies -- I certainly haven't told everything I know!"
You were aware that I am an activist and a journalist who also works with many other journalists. Now, if you think I am wrong about this here is how you can get the page removed.
1) Sue me, which will accomplish my goal of publicizing (big time coverage) the passenger rights issue and possibly bring your ill considered comments to the attention of people who may be in a position to impact your ongoing attitude.
or
2) Request that I be restored to the list, and after such restoration issue a public apology and retraction of your comments. When drafting the retraction review the last paragraph of my letter to Bob Young at NWA.
By the way, the list is hosted on a university server, which is supported in part with public funds. The list has a published policy in regards to someone's removal. That policy was not followed and as such there are legal issues which I could exploit if I chose to do so. At this time I believe that my time is better spent on the main issue rather than addressing the ramifications of my being kicked off the list. But if you and the list owners do decide to spar you should carefully consider how weak your position is first. The university is not going to like a public squabble, and if there is one it will be VERY PUBLIC ! !
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4-11-99
I have received two additional e-mails from Mr. Marcum. The first was somewhat concilatory and the second a treat to litigate over this web page. It seems that Mr. Marcum is no longer comfortable with his statements and position in regards to the imprisioned passengers and NWA's actions in regards to my computer.
I have actually quoted a very small amount of what Mr. Marcum had to say. In fact he went from stating opinions to slanderous comments like:
Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 9:07 PM
"How would you feel if it were Lucent he were scamming JCK? If "Darren The Bulldog" has the wherewithal to try to keep "Ripley" in line, I say let him have at it!! I've just about given up as it's apparent that the guy is hopelessly bent on trying to scam NW, and everybody on this list."
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 1:13 AM
"It's true folks!! I just called to inquire about them by calling 1 800 RR-SUCKS. I was told that one side reads, "Ron Riley Sucks" and the other side reads, "Fly Northwest Airlines" bearing the timeless Northwest compass logo."
Then in a discussion about whether I should be kicked off the SkyOne list Mr. Marcum said:
Date:
Wednesday, March 17, 1999 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: ADMIN: The Riley Files
"Hitler had rights too. I guess that stopping him was wrong."
Date:
Saturday, March 20, 1999 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: <<P.S. ***ALERT*** Be sure to notice the
**NEW** / was Re: McCain and DCA
"Do you *really* think that anyone here cares for your observations Riley. I don't believe you have an ounce of credibility here."
"*Experience* Wow. Yeah, you're right Riley. I'd be really proud of myself too if through all of my "experience" I had learned to ignore evidence and lie through my teeth."
"As for big-headedness, I can't compete with you there Riley; nobody can."
"I just think that spreading misinformation is awful, especially when carried as far as you've taken it. You're exposure in USA Today makes it *so much worse* because now so many of my fellow Americans are buying into your crooked story, and it disgusts me."
Now I am seriously considering lodging a complaint with US Airways in regards to Mr. Marcum's libelous, maybe even slanderous comments, where he denigrates my good name. I am sure that US Airways would take a dim view of Mr. Marcum knowingly harassing a loyal customer and then threatening to sue that customer. Once again I must point out that Mr. Marcum would fit right in at NWA.
I will repeat one last time that I expect Mr. Marcum to post a public retraction and apology on all the airline forums.
=============================================
From:
C E Marcum <cmarcum@juno.com>
To: skyone-l@ecnet.net <skyone-l@ecnet.net>
Cc: rjriley@rjriley.com <rjriley@rjriley.com>
Date: Monday,
April 19, 1999 8:24 PM
Subject: R Riley
Fellow Listers,
Former list-member Ronald J. Riley is currently making certain threats against me should I not issue a public apology and retraction to "all" airline forums for things that I said here on SkyOne. My first inclination to having been threatened was to issue no such statement here or anywhere, however, always believing in and intending to follow the Golden Rule, to do unto others as I would have done unto myself, it recently occured to me that it is not right of me to do someone else wrong just because I believe that that person is doing me wrong. I therefore wish to make a statement here on SkyOne as this is the only place where Mr. Riley and I "sparred."
As it is not right of me to make judgements of anyone for any reason, I hereby apologize for the negative statements I made toward Mr. Riley on this list and I hereby retract each and every one of them.
Reply 4-20-99
Mr. Marcum, You start an apology with a false claim that I have threatened you. That is really not the best way to impress everyone that your attitude about customers is improving. The fact of the matter is that I have not communicated directly with you at all. You have sent a series of emails to me and all my responses have been solely via this web page. After giving your threat to litigate the issue of whether or not first amendment rights protect my right to publish this web page I waited several days for your response. When that response was not forthcoming I sent a note to US Airways suggesting they take a look at the web page. I am sure you will hear from them in due time. I have already dealt with your and your group's actions by quoting small portions of your comments as an example of what is wrong with the Airline industry. The bottom line being that I and many other people who use fly are very tired of poor service compounded with airline employees with attitude. Mr. Marcum's comments on SkyOne and other forums demonstrates the problem nicely.
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